bekivapes

My journey into vaping

Day 166: You’re just making it up as you go really, aren’t you?

6 Comments

So here I am, in bed with my mobile phone and my voice recorder. I’m scrolling through tweets to keep myself happy and I happen across a link to a Reuters news snippet. Yes, that’s the mobile site. I’m doing my best here.

One team of researchers assessing the risks of electronic cigarettes is counting the puffs taken by volunteer “vapers.” Another will comb Facebook for posts on how people are tinkering with e-cigarettes to make the devices deliver extra nicotine. A third is building a virtual convenience store for 13-to-17-year-olds, measuring how e-cigarette displays and price promotions influence whether minors buy the increasingly popular devices.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is spending $270 million on these and 45 other research projects to determine the risks of e-cigarettes before millions more Americans become hooked on the devices.

Counting the puffs taken by volunteer vapers is meaningless. The nicotine per puff varies between user, between juice, between device, and varies over time in an individual as they self titrate their dose. Vapers don’t “tinker with e-cigarettes to make the devices deliver extra nicotine” We really don’t. We tinker to get the best FLAVOUR, VAPOUR PRODUCTION, AND THROAT SENSATION. It has chuff all to do with nicotine. If I want more nicotine I VAPE A STRONGER JUICE.

What the hell has a virtual convenience store got to do with anything? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? You aren’t asking the right questions here. The data is already available; look at Snus use. Look at the uptake of Snus among young people. Look at the data collected in the UK smoking toolkit.

The Yale team, for instance, will study whether menthol and flavors such as chocolate and cherry increase the appeal of e-cigarettes, especially to 16-to-18-year-old smokers or “dual users” who both smoke and vape. If that turns out to be the case, the FDA would have scientific support for regulating.

No they won’t. They are not balancing that study by looking at the harm caused by regulating flavours for the target market of adult smokers switching. If fewer adult smokers switch, or those who have switched who find that they can’t stay switched without those flavours THAT IS NET HARM. Ask the right questions to get the right answers. These studies look to be utterly biased, unbalanced and coming from complete ignorance about what an e cigarette or personal vaporiser is, what it does, who it’s designed for and how it’s used. They also look like busywork. Making it look like no expense has been spared in order to research the “issues” when in fact very little expense has been spared in order to produce the results that are wanted.

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Author: Beki

A Mad middle aged woman who lives in the middle of nowhere, Scotland with a parrot, two Jack Russells, some koi, and a tank full of tropical fish. I have M.E. but that's really not important. I draw, paint, write, game, garden, blog and enjoy a good vape. I have three lovely grown up offspring, and 2 ex-husbands. I do genuinely have the legal title of 'Lady Rebecca Jane [SURNAME]', and am proud to support the restoration project which bestowed that title on me. I will happily explain where to find more information on this if you contact me.

6 thoughts on “Day 166: You’re just making it up as you go really, aren’t you?

  1. This whole research seems to be idiots are idiots rule (sadly though in honesty it is intelligent biased people lieing rule)

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  2. What really gets my goat is that the yanks are basically planning to piss $270 million down the drain, when they could actually do some seriously useful research with money like that.

    In the absence of bias, they could establish some things which vapers would really and truly like to know. For instance: IS it possible to denature VG to acrolein in an e-cig by pushing voltage/wattage too far? If so, at what point? I’m given to understand that the taste of acrolein is so unpleasant that this isn’t really too likely with the kind of kit most vapers use, but the taste of a dry hit isn’t any too choice either.

    I’d also love to know exactly what IS in the gunk that forms on our coils, and just why it smells so ghastly when performing a dry burn. Some liquids definitely leave far less ‘gunk’ on coils than others, and I’d be extremely keen to find out why. This could easily inform my flavour choices should someone care to explain which components are leaving unvapourised elements behind in the greatest quantities.

    Is there in fact a definable point beyond which it really isn’t intelligent to carry on using the same coil? 20ml of liquid throughput? 30ml? 50ml? I don’t want or need anyone to legislate on this, but like most things, if I’m informed that some activities are more risky than others I can make my own choices. Example: Based on what I know about it, I do not fancy potholing as a leisure activity AT ALL.

    If the FDA would care to drop a few mill in my direction, I could spend the next couple of years trawling the forums and passing suggestions back to them which would actually make sense. You probably could as well, Beki – what do you reckon? It defies all reason that the very last thing they would apparently think of doing is actually ASKING some real live vapers which issues concern them most!!

    All joking aside, I am starting to be a bit concerned for American vapers – with the forces of darkness lining up against them this way, they could face some very serious problems indeed.

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    • It is the main point I’ve been trying to make to anyone in authority who might be reading; listen to vapers. It works for us. Don’t break what aint broken by applying a “fix” to something they just don’t understand, and apparently don’t want to understand. Vapers are dismissed as irrelevant – and we are very relevant.

      The positive side of it is that as we are in the information age, they can’t silence us. We also have good science on our side, as opposed to the pseudo science against us. One by one the ridiculous arguments against vaping will fall. At that point we can perhaps begin to get our real questions answered. Sugars carbonising from sup par VG/Dark juice? I don’t know, but I dry burn regularly anyway.

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  3. While largely agreeing with everything you’ve said above, your reply does unfortunately raise some issues which are extremely difficult to get past. We (as vapers) are in effect facing a trio of massively powerful ideological opponents; those I refer to as “the forces of darkness”. This is going to sound somewhat paranoid, but hey – they ARE out to ‘get us’ in the sense of wishing to interfere with the way we choose to live our lives as vapers.

    Firstly there is the unbelievably powerful and massively well-funded collective force I’d describe as Big Commerce, and I’d include Pharma, Tobacco and even the rapidly growing greed-driven, scruple-free cig-a-like-mongers (such as E-Lites & Skycig) among this group. Their influence seems so malignant that it almost qualifies as evil.

    The second group I’d define as our major opposition are the fanatic anti-tobacco mob, whether the ‘recent converts’ in the shape of former smokers who did manage to quit or the more simple ‘ideologists’, the health Nazis who apparently just simply can’t handle the idea of other people enjoying something they don’t approve of themselves. They resemble a bunch of religious extremists in many ways and from my perspective appear to behave in just as irrational a manner as any other kind of fundamentalist. They wilfully ignore all evidence which does not fit their dogmatic world view such as the fact that vaping is not smoking and the evident benefits of nicotine. They do regrettably have far more power than they merit based on logical reasoning, and even worse, funded and encouraged by some of the first group they have turned themselves into an entire industry which has the ‘ear’ of the third group.

    This third group is comprised of all the governments, politicians, legislators et al who appear to be simultaneously both the most ignorant and corrupt of the lot – “the Authorities” in all their multiple guises. Their unhealthy desire to wield power and exert control over everyone else appears far more addictive than nicotine has ever been (probably inaccurately) described as being! They are perhaps the ones I fear the most, as they may have the ability to cause us most damage, egged on by the other two. My own ‘worst case scenario’ involves the possible effects of their actions – forcing vaping into becoming an underground activity vulnerable to all the ills which a black market (likely controlled by organised criminals) could inflict on us.

    Neither of the latter two groups seem to have the slightest interest in looking at any aspect of vaping from the core point of view of vapers – whatever risks or potential harm might become apparent over the next twenty or even fifty years, by comparison to the demonstrable harm that smoking causes this is likely to be almost totally insignificant. This was the conclusion I reached based on my own research back in 2008 and I haven’t really come across anything really major since then to change that point of view. Nothing at all is truly “harmless” or free of risk in an absolute sense in terms of being alive on this planet, and all adult humans should be well aware of that fact.

    I agree that we cannot be silenced – but the other edge of the ‘information’ sword involves the stark fact that much of the welter of information we are all drowning in every day, let alone that which we deliberately seek out is not necessarily either correct or truthful. As a result, I lack confidence that the ‘general public’ have much chance of ever being properly informed about numerous issues, of which vaping is just one – ‘fracking’ would be another good example.

    I’m an idealist at heart, and I’d absolutely, passionately LOVE to believe in concepts such as science and evidence-based medicine but both seem to have become so debased in our money-driven ‘civilisation’ that at times I feel this is little more than a childish fantasy in the modern world. Apologies that this appears to have degenerated into a kind of doom-laden rant; in fact it actually demonstrates WHY I follow your blog – you are my antidote to the bleakness! Your intelligence, optimism and humour lift my mood and give me hope that the ever-increasing numbers of vapers may yet prevail against “the forces of darkness”. Despite the evidence of the above, you do help me keep my chin up – THANKYOU. Please keep on doing what you’re doing!

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    • I find it amazing that my readers seem to come up with my trains of thought towards my next blog post so beautifully. Last night I was poddling about in one of my online games and an acquaintance of mine there ended up being sent here for a wee read. His comment was this, “Not a subject I have any interest in. I don’t understand why you feel you have to justify your vices, you’re a grown up.” having pointed out that I’m fighting a putative ban rather than justifying a vice I sat back and thought about what he’d said. He’s right; I’m a grown up. It’s my choice. No one has the right to deny my that choice for whatever reason. No one has the right to deny anyone else that choice in the future. It might feel futile, it might feel like saying the same thing over and over again using different words but it does all boil down to just that. My health, my choice. It’s worth fighting for even if I do feel like an ant bashing a six foot brick wall of collective indifference.

      We’re starting to see the pieces moved into place by ECITA as they quietly continue their promised fight as the official representatives of the business side of vaping. I think that organisation’s plans are our best hope for sanity with the UK rules. Meanwhile all I can do is promote EFVI which isn’t so much a distraction as being backup to that main plan. That and correct the misinformation like water at a stone. Drip drip drip against the machine. Thank you for your support too – keep on doing what you do. Keep commenting, keep gently correcting. We aren’t beaten and I don’t believe we will be.

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